Curse

Mygas · Jun 24, 2006, 06:11 AM // 06:11

Ok i've frapsed a video of a latest GvG I was in. I'm used to monking in HA, my r5 is 90% monking. However i've noticed that boon prot is a lot different as it should be. I'm asking for some experienced boonproters for gvg to contact me. Some contact information is below. Get in touch with me and I'll send you the video. I badly need critique, what I'm doing wrong, suggestions etc. My main problem is energy. In HA I usually have plenty of energy to work with, however, in GvG as boon prot it seems that my energy is always under 15, and many times I'm waiting for that 5 energy to drain16, or at some cases to just cast a spell cause drain is already recharging. Second problem is people dyeing, lol but not all of that is under my control. Anyways contact information is below.

EDIT - Video has been uploaded to http://dreamershaven.net/run1.wmv

Also one other thing is it would be awesome if some of those high ranked guilds boon proters could fraps their games and upload in a sticky. Boon prot is pretty much a standard in all gvg builds it seems like.

lord of shadow · Jun 24, 2006, 06:34 AM // 06:34

although i havent seen your video i suggest you bear in mind the size of the heals booning allows. dont try to keep everyone at full heal or with a prot on them the whole time. only heal people who need it and will get the full benefit from a heal. preprotting is improtant, but don't worry about it for now if you are already low energy

MrScaRy · Jun 24, 2006, 06:43 AM // 06:43

it's easier if you just upload it somewhere.. like rapidshare, filefront.. whatever.. rather than getting people to contact you

Mygas · Jun 24, 2006, 06:48 AM // 06:48

well i have webspace to upload and I was going to but was afraid a huge swarm of people would somehow watch it seeing as this thread is likly to exist for some time, anyways, I'm uploading it now, itll be at the link below in at most 20 minutes from now.

http://dreamershaven.net/run1.wmv

Byron · Jun 24, 2006, 07:01 AM // 07:01

Took a good look at the video, and your monking isn't bad at all. What your team needs is some damage prevention (ie, hex/condition hate to counter enemy's damage output), and some offense. There's really no excuse for allies to die that fast in sucession against a pressure build.

In general, monks can't heal forever, so in a balanced versus balanced build, it becomes a game of who can crack who first. A most effective defense is a good offense, IMO. Tell your teammates to give the monks some help; relying on the monks is always a bad decision in my experience.

Mygas · Jun 24, 2006, 07:11 AM // 07:11

I understand that, and completly agree with you that we need to drop before being dropped. However, a part of me still thinks that there's more I could do. The lack of energy really hits me more in a mental state I think. I start rushing and my priorities turn into getting off EDrain as quickly as possible, meaning i'll lik;y spend my only 5 energy on that, then on a rof that would probably save a life. Is it comming for boon prots in gvg to have such low energy as I have in that movie?

BTW - this isn't really my guild I was just guesting for them, they're just now getting into the pvp scene so a part of me thinks that they look up to me to keep them alive because i'm "more experienced" in the PvP aspect. But because i've pretty much done like 5 gvgs as a boon prot....well, i guess keeping ppl alive jsut comes with experience. Still though any other critiques?

MrScaRy · Jun 24, 2006, 09:58 AM // 09:58

oh gosh.. ok anyway:

I noticed that the way you were boon protting was that the first 4 guys are healed by the first monk and you handle that bottom 4 guys.. I think that isn't effective at all. I saw a few times that the top 2 guys were getting hit and you didn't do anything to help them. Also, i noticed that you were using guardian a lot more.. they had 2 thumpers and guardian is definitely not a good idea.

There were some times when you were just focusing on energy management and pushing for the edrain (like you said in the above post) rather than saving people which is definitely not a good trade off.

A good monk needs fast reactions and needs to be quick with his skills especially in saving against spikes. I think a big drawback was that your team did not have a heal partying e/mo. That was a really large drawback because the opponents had some aoe there.

Also, I think you should try mantra of recall instead of edrain as emanagement. Firstly because you don't need to target a guy and run to the front line, and secondly you can use cop with it to get instant energy. It would probably work better for you. Also, if you really have problems with energy, take out divine boon and recast it when you are comfortable with your energy level. You should not constantly have divine boon on if there is no need for it.

Edit:

Adding to it, I think it was more of a case of bad coordination than bad monking.. the team was still fighting when it was 5v8 and still calling spikes. sighs..

Acca · Jun 24, 2006, 10:07 AM // 10:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrScaRy

Also, I think you should try mantra of recall instead of edrain as emanagement. Firstly because you don't need to target a guy and run to the front line, and secondly you can use cop with it to get instant energy.

10 energy to cast MoR, five to cast CoP, then five more to put Divine Boon back on. I'm not against using CoP for removing hexes and conditions naturally, but I have never understood how people can use it to end MoR and think that their management is better because the energy is received more quickly than waiting for MoR to end by itself. You're gaining 23 energy but it ends up costing you 20 to get it.

Whether you end MoR immediately or wait the 20 seconds you still gain the same amount of energy per second from it (23 over 20 seconds with 10 Inspiration) Because MoR still needs to recharge. Waiting shouldn't really be a problem should it?

MrScaRy · Jun 24, 2006, 11:33 AM // 11:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acca

10 energy to cast MoR, five to cast CoP, then five more to put Divine Boon back on. I'm not against using CoP for removing hexes and conditions naturally, but I have never understood how people can use it to end MoR and think that their management is better because the energy is received more quickly than waiting for MoR to end by itself. You're gaining 23 energy but it ends up costing you 20 to get it.

Whether you end MoR immediately or wait the 20 seconds you still gain the same amount of energy per second from it (23 over 20 seconds with 10 Inspiration) Because MoR still needs to recharge. Waiting shouldn't really be a problem should it?

Ok, maybe I didn't state clearly enough. The reasons why I would use MoR over edrain is that it adds 1 more enchantment for CoP usages. But what I was trying to say is that you have the option of waiting out the 20 seconds before it comes, or when you are getting hit, you had the option of hitting CoP and getting the energy and heals immediately.

Edrain is also less consistent because there are chances that the target you are draining is nearly out of energy and in these times you would get less returned energy.

JR · Jun 24, 2006, 01:27 PM // 13:27

Let's not turn this into a MoR vs. EDrain debate; both are good and have their plus/negative points.

Downloading video, comments to follow.

[EDIT: Generally you did pretty well for someone new to that role, there were a few points though:

- A few times people died when your energy was good, I assume that was just your reaction time slipping.

- A lot of the time someones health bar would crash and you would try to get a Guardian off on them, in situations like that I would have stuck to PSpirit or RoF for the 1/4 second cast.

- As stated already; against Thumpers with Irresistible Blow, Guardian can do more harm than good.

- You didn't seem to keep track of the recharge of EDrain too well, it sometimes was up for a few seconds without being cast. It doesn't seem like much, but it greatly decreases efficiency. Even if you have to swap up to a +energy set to use it.

- Positioning wasn't brilliant; particularly around the 5:50~ mark, if I remember correctly. You seemed to be waayy far up, when you team was in a position where they should have been falling back anyway.

- I couldn't actually tell if you were getting +16 from EDrain every time, but if not make sure you drain pets or spirits.

There were also more problems with your team as a whole, but that isn't what you asked about. It does however reflect slightly on the issue, as a players skill is limited by their team. If you wish to improve, your team needs to aswell. ]

Mygas · Jun 24, 2006, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Thank you all for your input. As i siad before this isn't actualy my guild, my guild is rated much higher then this which is why I'm trying to become a better monk for them, without affecting thier current rating, which I think is 12-3. As for one monk boonproting the first four guys and me getting the last, that wasn't the case, or at least, wasn't suposed to be. We were stacked like that for a split if a split was needed, unfortunatly, the group has more basic problem to get ahold of then tactics such as spliting. (One thing would be kiting and not standing still)

The time I went up to front line I know was my fault, lol, was trying to get edrain off as fast as possible, and I guessing tabing to a target isn't the best option.

Below is a link to a second run, vs a completly differnet build, and with a much more experienced 2nd boon prot. Energy wasn't as big of an issue, but I got a feeling that 2nd boon prot was carrying my weight a lot which is somthing I really don't want occuring. Please, any comments on it would be awesome.

http://dreamershaven.net/run2.wmv

Full vid should be up in about 20 minutes, it's double size cause match was longer.

fb2000 · Jun 24, 2006, 06:11 PM // 18:11

I didnt see you switch to a +15/-1 en regen set, might be wrong tho. personally i always keep such a set, it does help in those critical times.
there were a couple of times in the second vid that your reactions seemed a lil bit slow, but other than that, its a nice improvement i think.

hope this helps

MrScaRy · Jun 25, 2006, 05:45 AM // 05:45

Watched the second vid:

-Faster reactions is a definite in being a monk....

-I noticed you were spending a lot of time putting your mouse on the edrain icon waiting for it to finish recharging. Time wasted there.. teammates dying.. You had inspired hex for your energy management, you could've used that instead of waiting and doing nothing.

-Basically, what I think is that you should get more used to the skills and the builds that people use in gvgs. Things like irresistable blow and guardian don't go together, and things like, I believe, protective spirit hardly helps against soul barbs. A lot of protective spirit was used there and I think it doesn't reduce any damage (correct me if I'm wrong). You should've used reversal for the heals.

-A lot of the times the other monk made the saves, so props to him. Edit: oops just noticed you said he was a more experienced boon prot. Yes, it was shown in the game

.

-You should communicate more to the team saying, don't over extend or whatever because time is very precious and every second counts and could mean life and death... I'm not sure I heard much monk communication but I assume you guys didn't need to.

-You also waited until the healing target went down to about 50% health before you healed him, which I assume was what you planned but I think that once you see a health drop that has degen on it, you should know that that is the target they are spiking and will need heals.

-Also at one point in the game, there were 2 targets getting degen'd by poison or bleeding or something.. I don't remember now but it was degen'd by a condition and you were using prot spirit to save them, which wasn't a smart choice because it provided little healing. Mend condition would've saved the 2 targets and because of that mistake both of them went down one after the other..

Mygas · Jun 25, 2006, 06:37 AM // 06:37

One thing about the communication is that it was there, somewhat. You can't hear my voice becuase fraps doesn't record what I say for some reason. Odd.

Anyways, I thank ya'll for all your help. I'll definatly be taking ya'lls advice into account and on some part have already tried to allievate main nrg problems. Just got the 40% recharge on inspiration gear, which I think would help TONS.

war adrenaline · Jun 27, 2006, 12:22 PM // 12:22

there are many different versions of Bp now..new versions that allow you to burn more energy, and recover it. Manthra of Recov is getting old now. Monks
Ellite spells are awesome, finding away to obtain energy without the use of Manthra of Recov, or offering can be of great help to you since they take up your elite slot. i currently use channeling+ air of enchantments [e] to keep up with my energy costs, i have not experienced any energy problems so far. so i suggest you read up some skills that you can work well with and understand, and work your way up from there.

Drewfense · Jun 27, 2006, 02:14 PM // 14:14

I will take a look at the video tonight, but two quick things and then my opinion on the MoR versus EDrain:

Your weapons should be:
Wand (collectors)
+5 energy UNDER 50
20% recharge inspiration
Icon (end game)
+30 health
20% recharge

This gives you a 40% chance of faster recharge (yes I have tested it, it is actually 36% 1/2, 4% 1/4 recharge) on your energy spells, giving you a significant energy boost. Depending on the build, I will sometimes favor drain ench over inspired hex because of the faster recharge. You may already be using inspiration items...I just often see boon prots use prot items. It is just my preference on the +5 under 50...+5 over 50 and +5 while enchanted in essence becomes a 5 point energy drain whenever you are a target because of low health/cop.

The other thing is to fully use your negative energy set. If you only have 5 energy and cast a RoF, the -2 from boon does not occur, but you still get the boon heal. Often I will wait till I get to 30 energy, switch to my negative energy set and cast a spell, then switch back. It seems small, but overtime the energy saved builds up tremendously (disclaimer: if someone is getting spike, burn the 7 energy rof...).

As for EDrain vs MoR. Both are pretty much the same in energy gained. The only difference is that they have unique situational advantages. So my advice is to ignore anyone who tells you to use one or the other. Use the one you are most comfortable with and stick with it. Over time you will get better at "abusing" the advantages for that skill.

Ristaron · Jun 27, 2006, 02:41 PM // 14:41

Your links are giving me an 'error' page. Until I see the video I can't comment or give tips on your style.
But, from what I've heard, you're learning and getting better. So keep it up.

chemmjr · Jun 27, 2006, 02:46 PM // 14:46

Boo

Error 404

TheGuildWarsPenguin · Jun 27, 2006, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ristaron

Your links are giving me an 'error' page. Until I see the video I can't comment or give tips on your style.
But, from what I've heard, you're learning and getting better. So keep it up.

same for me, I get the error page and some anime ads.